KETOSIS! Page 1 / 3

trogedon, Jan 1, 4:47pm
Keto diets are BAD in the short term. and the long term. You're already experiencing some of the short term ones which is reason enough to give it up. .

buzzy110, Jan 1, 4:54pm
Yeah. Give it up. Go vegan. You will soon know about loss of muscle. More specifically the loss of the muscle in the brain that is in control of critical thinking. But wait. You will grow another muscle in its place. It is called the Propaganda and Anti Critical-Reason Filter muscle - PACF for short. You helps you absorb all pro-vegan propaganda and filter out all reasonable and scientific objections to it. It will store many unscientific pro-vegan propaganda slogans that you can unthinkingly trot out at every opportunity.

trogedon, Jan 2, 8:50am
Here's Buzzy starting the year off on another unhappy and uniformed note.

gamefisher, Jan 2, 9:54am
Rather go vegan than keto but prefer a balanced diet with no processed sugar and minimal animal fat. Done both keto and vegan in time past found keto works but the long term health risk are very high and vegan is definitely very healthy if you know what what and how you are eating but not for me.

ingies, Jan 2, 9:59am
Not sure why you say the long term health risks are very high for ketogenic diets and why you want to avoid animal fats when that is one of the most natural fats that we as a species evolved with, whereas there are no natural populations that survived on a vegan diet as it doesn't have all the nutrients we need to survive.

onefield1, Jan 2, 11:37am
The long term health benefits are pretty self-evident as we are still here after millions of years.

huggy5, Jan 2, 12:12pm
I tried Keto, well a LCHF version - I think there are other versions. I track my nutrient intake and found I couldn't get enough of some nutrients on Keto so I just added carbs back.
I feel better with a higher carb intake, I like yams, and onions, and fruit and legumes and I don't think any of them are unhealthy for me personally - I don't have metabolic syndrome or pre-diabetes.
I think diets are as individual as people.

gamefisher, Jan 2, 2:51pm
For thousands of year mankind ate wild animals that are low in fat content compared to the specially breed domestic animal of today which have a high fat content. The diet and exercise regime for the last 100 years has drastically changed for the worse.

buzzy110, Jan 2, 3:05pm
Don't you mean improperly brainwashed? If that is the case then my happiness is unbounded.

onefield1, Jan 2, 4:23pm
What changes do you see as being for the worse, gamefisher?
Yes I have wondered why they say our ancestors ate a lot of fat, when wild animals are lean. Some types of fish are fatty though, and some types of birds, also nuts but they are seasonal. Can you comment please buzzy?

ingies, Jan 2, 4:45pm
When Weston Price travelled the world looking at teeth and diets of tribal people not influenced by western diets he found that the most revered foods were fat rich and that a lot of tribal/ aboriginal peoples ate diets rich in fat soluble vitamins, they didn't have a low fat diet. The ancient Egyptians ate a diet that is recommended by today's dieticians. It was full of whole grains, vegetables, fruit, low in meat, sugar and low fat. They didn't live long healthy lives though, this diet gave rise to tooth decay, heart diseSe and obesity

kay141, Jan 2, 5:03pm
The whole debate is hilarious as most of these so-called diets bear no relationship to the diets of the longest living populations in the world.

They eat a Mediterranean or almost vegetarian diet but the key to their long life is hard physical work and their relationships.

This may be a few years old but it is still appropriate. It has certainly been effective in my life.

buzzy110, Jan 2, 5:24pm
Yes I can comment but why? You already believe what you believe. What is seasonal about birds, nuts and fish? Nuts can be stored. Birds and fish don't hibernate.

But let me clarify the fat thing for you. LCHF means a return to eating the normal amounts of fat that we had always eaten before LFHC corrupted our thinking. It doesn't mean over-consumption of fat or anything else.

We didn't thrive on low fat animals. People living on rabbits as their only source of protein die of starvation, more specifically, fat starvation. Humans require fat. Do your own research on why we need the stuff, especially omega 3 fat. I'm not going to do your research for you. You will discard it as soon as you read it if I tell you.

I have long had a problem with getting into ketosis by food choices. I have no real insight into ketosis AND eating. However I can easily get into ketosis by fasting and when I am in ketosis it is wonderful. There are no downsides. I think I've worked it out now and one day I'll try it.

To get into ketosis I would choose low insulinogenic foods. Protein from animals and legumes have quite a high insulin response. That would overcome the constipation issues experienced by poster #1 as well as making a mockery of those who think it is all meat and fat. I believe that too much meat, and protein or the opposite extreme of no meat or animal products continuously are not healthy in the long term. I am all for balance and fresh primary produce.

buzzy110, Jan 2, 5:33pm
Awww. That's so sweet. What a cosy image the reporter conjures up of hardworking people eating well and having lovely relationships. And it is relevant, mostly. But with the exception of the seventh Day Adventists about which I know nothing, the real reasons for longevity and health of the other peoples have been 100% missed out by the observer.

kay141, Jan 2, 5:34pm
If you say so. Did you actually read this one?

buzzy110, Jan 2, 5:40pm
Yes. I even put a clue in my post so you would know I had.

kay141, Jan 2, 5:46pm
That's nice, dear. You are entitled to disagree, we are all different and, while, obviously that diet works for those populations and many others, you are allowed to promote your ideas.

Just don't insist it is the only way, because it isn't.

trogedon, Jan 2, 6:03pm
Populations with the longest lifespan are the LEAST Keto like.

buzzy110, Jan 2, 6:04pm
Everything you say is true except the last sentence. I do not insist. It is you who insists by not so subtly finding it hilarious that others are discussing a subject you would rather they didn't unless it conformed to your viewpoint.

buzzy110, Jan 2, 6:07pm
Actually you are probably not correct. These people live long simply because they are often in ketosis. Once again I would point out to you that meat and animal protein is not the best route to ketosis. Fasting is. It is so quick you can achieve it inside of 12 hours. From what you say, you often use ketosis to keep your weight down.

kay141, Jan 2, 6:47pm
If you say so.

I have no objection to any discussion but, I find your insistence that you are right, frequent and hilarious.

IMO, you appear to try and shut down all those who disagree with you.

kay141, Jan 2, 6:50pm
You are wrong, those I quoted do not fast, but often eat 3 times a day. The difference is their meals contain very little meat but plenty of whole grains vegetables with the protein coming from eggs, fish and pulses.

buzzy110, Jan 3, 5:13pm
From what I have read the Mediterranean people in your link are Orthodox and fast for up to 164 days of the year.

But looking at your belief about what they eat I have to say that their diet almost exactly matches mine. When I eat grains they are mostly whole grains. I make my own bread to ensure that it contains lots of whole, unmilled grains. 95% of what rice I eat is only par polished rice from Japan. I don't eat a lot of pulses because they make me bloat and really hurt but I do have them during the winter to add bulk to stews and soup, etc. My meat intake is not huge and I like eggs. I have fished and dived and gathered kai moana all my life.

But I see you missed out the most important part of their diet - olive oil. Olives are not revered as a gift from the Gods for nothing. It is an oil that has an excellent balance of saturated, polyunsaturated, unsaturated, omega 3 and 6 fats. Without that who knows where they would be.

I don't know if you have ever seen any videos on the subject. I have and I notice that some of the women, though long lived, were also obese. I am reminded of the new paradox I read about on here yesterday - the Obesity Paradox, which sees overweight older people outliving their slimmer peers.

When we combine the French and Obesity Paradoxes with modern dietary recommendations I am lead to think that we have gotten this food and weight thing all wrong.

buzzy110, Jan 3, 5:19pm
It is also worth noting that the diet you say they eat is also low in insulinogenic foods and whole grains which cause insulin to be released slowly. Olive oil, which you missed out entirely, has no insulin response.

kay141, Jan 3, 5:49pm

Who missed the point?

Olive oil in Puerto Rico and Okinawa? Yea, right.

You believe what you want to believe and I'll continue my way. It's worked so far.

A tip for you, try some researcher and authors that aren't Americans. out to make money. Then go and visit the places.

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