LCHF without metabolic syndrome Page 1 / 6

crumptious, Mar 4, 4:42pm
i know of a few eye surgeons who are very much into this research


angelminx, Mar 7, 9:31am
Hahahaha

Oh wait, he was being serious?

huggy5, May 23, 9:40pm
I have tried LCHF and hated it, I felt sick constantly and didn't ever want to eat. I read up on the benefits (which is why I tried it originally), and some of the papers and studies said that while it is the best diet for diabetics and people with metabolic syndrome, and for certain brain disorders, if you don't have that then you are just as good on any diet. Well, any healthy diet that is, but you don't need to nut out about a potato or whatever.
So, I don't eat added sugar or refined wheat already, is it worth trying LCHF again? Or just keep to the lowish carbs I'm doing already?
I range between 60 and 150gms of carbs per day.
If there are no huge additional benefits, and I don't have any of the above disorders, is LCHF worth it ?

comadi, May 23, 9:46pm
Ditch the low carbs all together ---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggmlfrH3uEo

huggy5, May 23, 9:58pm
That guy is quite hard to watch, and seems almost as fanatical as the people he's criticising.

jesus2000, May 23, 10:20pm
Between 60 to 150g a day is still low carb. Everybody needs to find the carb level that works for them. Dropping down to around 20g a day is considered very low carb.

I was more strict with carbs when wanting to lose weight, but once I got to the weight I was happy with I put a bit more back into the diet in the form of things like pumpkin and potato and a bit more fruit.

jesus2000, May 23, 10:33pm
PS. The benefits are, by avoiding the breads and pasta etc you are avoiding subjecting your body to large glycemic loads that could create health problems in the future. And by eating more meat and veg instead you end up with a more nutrient dense diet plus better levels of protein. Again something that is more likely to serve your health well as you age.

lissie, May 23, 11:11pm
Pasta is actually low GI

onefield1, May 24, 11:18am
Has your gallbladder been removed? That can cause difficulty digesting fats until your body adjusts and makes fat burning enzymes. It can make you feel sick all the time.

comadi, May 24, 12:37pm
Yes I agree he can be hard to watch at times, and has a potty mouth!
In this interview with Jimmy Moore, thankfully he never swore once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-6ljH_kki8

Fanatical for sure, but that's what happens to a lot of people who get reformed. (ex booze & dope man I think)
A lot of ex smokers are the same, something they once defended with great zeal; they over time become to hate with a vengeance.

buzzy110, May 24, 12:41pm
huggy5. No. It isn't worth it. Just keep doing what you are doing.

Just a bit of information you may find interesting. Glycaemic index (GI) is how quickly glucose is released into the bloodstream. Glycaemic load (GL), on the other hand is the amount of glucose released into the bloodstream. Anything over 10 is considered high.

Therefore 180g plain boiled spaghetti, for instance, has a GI of between 46 - 58 which is 25pts less than bread BUT its release of glucose into the bloodstream is between 22 - 26.

This means that it is releasing glucose into your blood stream for a lot longer. Your body has to keep releasing insulin during the entire time that glucose is being released into your bloodstream. Insulin is the fat storing hormone and glucagon, the fat burning hormone, cannot be released in the presence of insulin.

The best scenario is when glucagon is produced to burn, first, stored glycogen (made from the meal just eaten for use between meals) and then, if glycogen is all used up before your next meal, fat. At best weight will remain stable, or, in the case of a LCHF dieter, there is a chance of a small weight loss because there is not a lot of glucose in every meal.

Your current diet seems to be spot on.

el.diablo, May 24, 4:49pm
What you want to avoid is spikes of insulin. High levels of insulin mean that the body essentially becomes desensitized to it in a way that's similar to us becoming desensitized to many things we get exposed to a lot: the spiciness of foods, acclimatization to the weather, caffeine etc.

Insulin is released when blood sugars rise and the amount released is proportional to the level of blood sugars: large spikes of blood sugar release more insulin at once, and so insulin levels spike in the same way that blood sugar spikes. If we eat foods that release sugar slowly, then insulin is released slowly. Low levels of insulin over a long period of time is much better than sudden spikes: it's the spikes that promote us to become resistant. Insulin resistance, in its extreme, is called type II diabetes.

Carbs are not essential nutrients: all carbs can be replaced with fats AND protein (both of which have essential components). However, carbs are also not the devil. If you want to use the HCLF diet, consider replacing the carbs that you do eat with wholemeal options. This is good for three reasons (non-exhaustive list):

1) Wholemeal foods are high in fibre. Fibre is good for digestive health and it also slows the rate at which you absorb nutrients. This is good for reducing insulin resistance.

2) Wholemeal foods tend to be high in complex carbs (eg starch). Starch is broken down to glucose (sugar) in the gut. However, this process takes time so it also slows the absorption rate.

3) Wholemeal foods tend to have higher vitamin levels. Wholemeal foods are especially high in certain B vitamins.

buzzy110, May 24, 4:59pm
Some good points but I think it is not so much the insulin spikes but the constant, long term presence of insulin. Hormones are cyclical and are released only at certain times of each day. They are not supposed to be present all day long. The constant presence of insulin is much more damaging and likely to cause IR than spikes and then no insulin until the next spike.

uniracer, May 24, 5:14pm
A red herring fallacy. The amount of 'essential' amino acids and 'essential fatty' required for physiological building blocks/processes are far exceeded by that required for energy metabolism.

It's like saying we have to generate electricity from hydro or solar power stations because water and sunshine are essential for life; whereas wind and fossil fuels are not.

uniracer, May 24, 5:29pm
Insulin is present even during fasting. Any diurnal variation is also dwarfed by the feedback response to blood glucose.

huggy5, May 24, 5:30pm
So how do you avoid a constant presence of insulin? I see that high sugar or carb foods can cause spikes, but wouldn't just eating release some glucose into the bloodsteam?

uniracer, May 24, 5:39pm
It is always present. Fasting and starvation will reduce basal insulin secretion.

comadi, May 24, 7:49pm
Strictly speaking yes, but if you want to live a life with a bit of up and go activity, good luck.
Clean water is also not essential; you can just drink Tea, coffee, soft drinks, milk etc and your body will work hard to sieve out the cr*p and get the water content.
There's always more than one way to skin a cat, some ways aren't very smart though.

comadi, May 24, 8:19pm
For breakfast this morning I tried something different to my normal home made Muesli.
1 large banana, 1 large apple, 1 medium pear. 20 dried dates & 20 prunes, and the usual half a cup of water before and after.
Boy did I get a sugar rush ---- NOT; and felt full for a good 5 hours :-)

jesus2000, May 24, 9:46pm
While GI (Glycemic Index) tells you how quickly a particular food will raise your blood sugar level, GL (Glycemic Load) takes into account the amount of carbohydrate you are eating in the serving and the effect it will have on your blood glucose.

http://alsearsmd.com/glycemic-index/

ie, 2 teaspoons of sugar has a glycemic load of 7. 1 cup of cornflakes has a glycemic load of 21.1

jesus2000, May 24, 9:48pm
So your logic is calories are essential, and carbohydrate has calories, so there fourth carbohydrates are essential.

By that same logic you could say squiggle top biscuits have calories, so there fourth squiggle top biscuits are essential.

If calorie needs are met by fat and protein then there is no essential carbohydrate requirement.

.

jesus2000, May 24, 9:50pm
It would have been interesting to see what happened to your blood sugar levels after that breakfast and through the morning.

jesus2000, May 24, 9:58pm
And some people's fasting insulin level is a lot higher than other people's fasting insulin levels.

One of the measures of hyperinsulinemia.

uniracer, May 24, 11:35pm
So what?

Electricity is essential. So is water. You don't have to generate electricity from hydropower just because water and electricity happen to be essential for different things. They are unrelated variables.

To suggest that one should exclude carbohydrate as a source of energy because it is not essential for something else is a red herring fallacy.

comadi, May 25, 8:52am
Yeah, felt great all day; no highs or lows :-) back to my usual this morning, but added an extra banana.

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